Shulou(Shulou.com)11/24 Report--

This article comes from the official account of Wechat: ID:chuappgame, by Soy Sauce Girl.

Who has the right to define who?

During this period of time, with the release of "Flame medallion: Engage", because the previous work "Flame Emblem: romance and Snow Moon" entered the pit, Chi Gao, a teacher, has once again lived a life of forgetting to eat and sleep and play chess. A few years ago, she kept Switch in her office and was fascinated by the war and the plot. "Flame medallion can never leave me." During the meal, she also picked up Joy-Con easily.

However, during the Spring Festival holiday, I suddenly received a message from Mr. Chi: "have you played the new work of 'Fire pattern'?"

"not yet." I answered honestly.

"be careful with your book!" She looks very angry.

When he started work after the festival, teacher Chi still remained angry, and the word of mouth of "Engage" itself became clear gradually. Most players seem to think that it is interesting to play chess, the plot is confusing, and the art is divided. There is also a voice that this model returns to the old "fire lines", purifies the "real players" and restores the so-called "pure chess game".

Teacher Chi feels that this statement is very open to question. In other words, she has always been suspicious and wary of the words "pure" and "real". Who has the power and confidence to define a game and a group of players? Why do manufacturers waver in their attempts to expand their audience? What is the actual scrutiny of players who are seen as "not so real"?

If "romance" makes teacher Chi play chess crying and laughing, "Engage" makes teacher Chi play chess angrily, but he is still playing chess anyway.

Around these issues, Toule organized a conversation between editors. The participants included teacher Chi Gao, who became a chess player because of "Love and Snow Moon" and experienced a lot of similar works, and Mr. Xiong Yu, who dabbled extensively in old chess and various types of games, and Mr. Xiong Yu, who did not have much opinion on the recent works of "Fire pattern." and teacher Zhu Siqi, who has played "romance and Snow Moon" but is addicted to other games.

Return to "real chess"? Chi Gao (hereinafter referred to as "Chi"): from the beginning, I had great expectations for "Engage" because the previous film "Flowers and Snow Moon" took me into the game. I've always felt that chess is not the kind of game I can play, just like MOBA-both the way of playing and the public opinion around this type of game feels like a "brother" and doesn't seem to belong to my style at first glance.

But "romance" changed my perception. First of all, its plot is very attractive, such as three countries fighting each other, from the setting there are a lot of dilemma or heartbreak plot. Secondly, mechanically, you can not only train people in your own college, but if you take a fancy to people from other colleges, you can give them gifts, plus refine the proficiency of one of your weapons, get close to them, and dig them over. There is a sense of hard work to become a partner with them, and the logic is very smooth. And playing chess is really fun, let me very addicted, I never knew that playing chess is so fun.

So I pre-ordered "Engage" early in the morning, put everything behind me on the day of launch and went to play. But as soon as I started, I felt something was wrong: I found that the story of this generation was very king, and the protagonist was the god in this world. All the people revolved around the protagonist, the so-called "Dragon Lord". It was simply a real "dragon proud heaven". Many mechanisms have also changed, such as partners no longer need you to dig one by one, but pick up all the way, and it is very easy to cultivate relationships with these partners, and you don't need to work hard. Although there are support levels to brush, but upgrading is very simple, you do not need to pay extra resources, nor need to remember what they like, you can get everything slowly.

In Engage, everyone inexplicably loves the protagonist and chess itself. The way of playing chess has also changed a lot compared with the previous work. The more I play, the more I think, what's going on, how does playing chess feel more like the "Flag of the Virgin"? It was only later that I realized that like "Virgin Battle Flag" means like chess.

Xiong Yu (hereinafter referred to as "Bear"): yes. "Love and Snow Moon" is actually a special one in the chess game, which will give you a lot of time to explore between the main lines, talk freely in the college, and develop relationships and poaching. More chess games, such as "Engage" and "Virgin Battle Flag", are more focused on fighting and developing systems, and there is less romance that can be done between two rounds of battles.

Chi: at first glance, there are a lot of things that Engage can do, and it seems that the production team has not forgotten how they have achieved success in the past-but these things are all very boring. Everyone in "romance" has different personalities, even after two or three years, I can still think of many characters' character, appearance, and even weapons that I am good at. The characters in "Engage" are very facial, which can be summed up in one word, such as Aojiao, lovely, cheerful, and Royal Sister. If there is a little girl who is very cute, she will always tell you that she likes lovely things and likes you to praise her beauty. And then there was the little prince who came on stage to see him off. at first, I thought he looked eight points like the Emperor Mitoli in the romance, so I paid close attention to him and even considered him as a marriage partner. But I soon found that the little prince's character was very boring. His only hobby was exercise, and his mouth was full of muscle drinks. The only reason he did this was because he had a serious illness when he was a child. He felt that as the prince of the country, he must be able to shoulder more responsibilities, and he has worked very hard ever since. The story of the characters is only in this depth.

Will you stop talking about muscles, your Highness? As a result, I was completely unable to cultivate a relationship with them, and I didn't find it rewarding to cultivate a relationship with them. I used to care a lot about brushing support in "romance". Because the level of support from C to S, everyone's dialogue will change. This change will eventually form a complete story, a story between you and them or between them. You will really get closer and closer to their nature.

Now I don't want to care about the characters and the plot at all, so I'm addicted to playing chess. Playing chess is really fun. I play until 5 o'clock in the morning every day!

Bear: if the characters' names are longer than the summary of their personalities, the characters are really a bit too stereotyped. But can it really be so boring? I haven't played this work yet. According to your description, the plot sucks and the battle is good. It seems to mean something like "if of Flame".

Chi: yes, there are comments comparing it to "if". Moreover, the technical ability of this work has indeed been significantly improved, and the map design and light and shadow are very exquisite. The mechanism of the training match has also been changed, and now we can play many games. If you play more training games between the plots, your character will upgrade quickly and you can achieve level suppression on the main line. The difficulty of the training match is based on the level, so I am playing hard in training now, but the main line is very easy. I am playing with difficulty and classic mode, and I can beat it even if I grope for it.

The battlefield of this work is very good, and it is very cool to fight! I like to play while reading the online strategy, such as the assembly guide, to get some reference. It's just that when I read some strategies, the feeling of "this is not my field" came back. I saw some brothers there celebrating each other, saying that they finally stopped falling in love and played chess, the kind of daunting jargon and "slang" all used in the strategy, listing a pile of data, and then asking you to "just play it." If I hadn't called, I might have started to doubt myself, "this is not something I can play with."

Now I think the plot of "the Battle Flag of the Virgin" is better than "Engage", and the characters in it are very distinct. The only drawback is that the boobs are too big. In "Engage"-- Yes, the breasts of this work are also much bigger than those of the last one. There are basically two female roles, one is a sister with big breasts, and the other is a young girl who you think is committing a crime if you like her.

Zhu Siqi (hereinafter referred to as "Zhu"): if you play "Engage" in classic mode this time, your dead teammates will not return later. Will the dead bring you mood swings?

Chi: I care about the dead very much. When playing "the Flag of the Virgin", the character I regarded as the hero was killed at some point in the middle and later stage of the plot, and I was very mad. Partly because he was the strongest player except me at that time, and because I really valued him and regarded him as the "little prince" in that work. I later learned that if I went back a few chapters to get something, I could save him, but it was too long ago. I didn't know where the archive was covered by me, and I lost my little prince forever. It was really super heavy at that time, and it was so sad to watch him disappear. This kind of sadness is more of a kind of sadness of losing a good comrade-in-arms.

I don't want to die in Engage, but only because I spent a lot of resources and effort on everyone's numbers. For example, I will let the protagonist fight, and then let the people I train to eat heads. Everyone's position in the team is still very important. it is too troublesome to kill a man with a sword and train another man with a sword.

Bear: so is it the mood of capitalists to see the stock fall?

Pool: yes. "Engage" means pure electronic chess to me. It's not impossible to play when you're dead, but it's best not to die. Can not employ people, investment wasted, in the game will make me feel very bad.

I am mainly surprised that some people are there to celebrate "Engage" and "return to real chess". They think that "Flowers and Snow Moon" lowers the threshold of chess games and brings a lot of "fairies". Then they feel that the love plot is meaningless to chess itself, making it "impure". It's scary to see this word, because I don't think anyone is qualified to define anything that is "real", "pure" and "orthodox".

"Engage" specially arranges some nostalgic elements in the combat system to comfort series players. For me, all the games that have combat, be it chess or action games, the most important thing is to give me a reason to fight. I know that sounds like a hit! But I think unless it's a game like Malio, the rest is naturally the richer the plot is, the better the story is-- isn't it electronic chess? Then why don't I play chess? If you want to say what is orthodox, then I think chess is qualified to say orthodox. Of course, playing chess itself is interesting, but I think what is even more remarkable is that through the careful shaping of the characters, I will think that these pieces are not only the relationship between numerical value and restraint, but also my good friends, the people I like, and my partner in fighting together. When a chess piece is "eaten", I do not think, ah, I lost a "gun" or "car", I think that I have lost a friend forever. What a great thing it is for the game to do this, and it's a pity to throw this part away.

Bear: this "reason to fight" is really very Japanese-style Secondary two, similar to "someone to protect"! But does anyone really complain about the elements of a relationship? In fact, it is normal to have love elements in chess, even a lot of chess is a GalGame dressed in chess. Other types are the same, such as the "P" series, people don't have a good time, and many people in CRPG can fall in love, and it really doesn't make sense to complain that "chess is in love".

Emotional experience inside and outside the plot: I feel the same way with Mr. Chi. Love elements are common, but sometimes they are taken out to complain or play tricks, as if the object of the paper man can really affect the speed at which you draw the knife. Before, Mr. Yuan Weiteng and I were playing "Divine World: original Sin 2" at about the same time. Teacher Yuan often shows off his roles. I don't understand why my injury is not so high, so he laughs at me: "Don't just think about falling in love, think about outfits!"

In fact, I just got in touch with CRPG at that time, and the poor fitting of the characters was simply because I didn't understand how to play, and I also missed a lot of feeder lines to pick up equipment. It was not until the end of the week that I came to understand the system. The love story is also in the later stage, and I bumped into it completely unprepared. Although the plot is very short, but the copywriting is very good, and the fight is more and more easy to combine, my game experience is very explosive, the late play is very excited, but also immediately opened two weeks.

At the end of the second week, I knew from the very beginning that I would attach importance to adding points and fitting. I cleared all the branch lines for collecting powerful equipment, and paid special attention to the skill distribution of each team member, was it enough for a "serious player"? But it's a matter of learning how to play, and it doesn't conflict with the love I like in it. The extra character fetter is just based on the fun of the game, which attracts me to open my eyes for two weeks faster, and further pursue the intensity of equipment and the pursuit of fun.

I have a view that may be "violence theory". In a sense, players in the face of a new game, in fact, have no obligation to carefully understand its game mechanism. Some games don't make me feel funny after fighting for hours. I tend to adjust the simple and difficult plot directly. If it doesn't appeal to me in the plot, then I might just abandon it. There is a reason to keep me in the game, I will have the mind and interest to think about it.

In fact, this is also very common, even the value of the two-dimensional draw mobile games, but also spend a lot of money packaging characters, allowing players to work on "cooking power" and card noodles, rather than directly paying for equipment and data.

Does the evolution of AI make three-dimensional board games "impure"? Bear: that's right, so you can see that all the sequels focus on novice tutorials and introduce simple difficulties for beginners. I am also very supportive of this. No one has the right to interfere with how other people play games, whether it is simple or difficult, or to be a kitchen power party is their own freedom.

However, I agree with my old friend that there is something wrong with the difficult design of the first edition of "romance and Snow Moon". I bought it for the first time, but I didn't go through customs all the time, just because the hardest difficulty at the beginning was too easy. When I heard that I was going to add new difficulty, I put down the game and waited. As a result, it came to today. But what difficulty you like is also a personal matter. For the first time, Mr. Chi played "romance and Snow Moon" in easy mode. In order to persuade her to open the classic mode, I told her that "immortal chess is not a real game."... She has always been bitter about this remark. I have to apologize. I'm just saying. But you see, now Mr. Chi is also a classic mode plus difficulty player, which shows the change-first pull people into the pit, play for a long time, you will naturally find it too simple and boring, and take the initiative to look for challenges.

Chi: do you also think that "the player who does not play the difficulty is not the real chess player"?

Bear: I certainly wouldn't say that. Who dares to define and who can define a real player? I don't even think it's a problem. I've never discussed this concept with anyone before today. I do think that not playing difficulties will lose some of the fun, because the essence of chess is to play games and develop characters. The two are one, and many players will "concave" when playing games with random growth content, such as "Fire pattern". The key to the concave point lies in the pursuit of perfect cultivation. Naturally, you have to challenge the hurdle, which requires a high degree of difficulty-if it is not difficult enough, perfection is meaningless.

Chi: but this argument is rarely seen in some other types of games. For example, in a love game, you basically don't play all the characters for weeks, do you? You will only play one of your favorite characters, and you don't care what the plot is when you fall in love with other characters. Do you feel that you have lost some of the fun?

Bear: the example of GalGame is really good. I agree that players don't have to enjoy all the fun of game design. I only know how to attack the one I like. If the game offers me 10 objects and I only like one of them, I don't think it's fun to miss the remaining 9.

Chi: this is it. In fact, many times I feel uncomfortable, it is not very direct "female players are not worthy to play" and so on-of course, there are a lot of such words! But I also often see things like what you just said, such as how to play is to fully experience the fun of the game, how to play will lose the fun, where is the essence of a game, if you do not experience the essence, it means that you are playing in the wrong way. That's all! Sometimes it makes me feel a lot of pressure. Assuming that some players are interested in the love plot, and the part of chess always plays the ordinary difficulty and relaxed mode, can it be said that he does not understand the "essence" of "romance"? I don't think so. As long as the part of chess matches well with the plot, fighting and falling in love achieve each other, how difficult is it to play? Why can't this be the essence?

There are some Mini Game nurturance in Engage, but keeping this kind of pet is really neither cute nor very useful. I always insist that the game-- most games-- requires creating meaningful emotional experiences, in other words, telling a story. Teacher Zhu and I both took some explosive emotional moment as an opportunity to invest in the game. Mr. Xiong also said just now that emotional experience will be welcomed by both men and women. But I also wonder if some people just reject and despise emotion and think that chess should be ruthless. Or some people like the kind of very simple and rude in "Engage". As soon as they come on stage, they are proud of the dragon, and all the beautiful girls worship you. You go out and fight, and a group of beautiful girls only do two things: either at home or on the battlefield.

Bear: there is no such thing! I am a dead man, and I have a say in this matter!

First of all, there are some rubbish harem works, but it is not to say that dead houses like these works. Have you ever heard of the Wall of Masterpieces? The animation "Infinite Stratos" ("IS" for short) was later used to describe works that had a poor reputation but sold well. Its original author is a dead house to see a "dead fat house" big brother, the work is also very bad, selling meat plus harem, perfect in line with your plot template. However, although its sales are OK, the otaku's evaluation of it is actually very low. I don't know where some of your impressions come from. In fact, I really want to know the preferences of the dead, I recommend you to go to the criticism space and VNDB to see the score, you can roughly know what kind of works have high praise.

The second is the question of "emotional experience". I think playing itself is also an "emotional experience". When I was a child, I like to play games, primary school students who care about love! What's funny is the game itself. You just mentioned that I play until 5 o'clock in the morning every day, which is actually my experience when I was a child. When you experience an interesting way of playing, this feeling absolutely lingers all your life, so that's why an old buddy likes a series for 20 years. This is our brother's emotional experience.

Finally, for both men and women, I really don't think there will be many players who particularly reject emotion and plot. SRPG already attaches great importance to the plot, and "Fire pattern" is also representative of it. For me, it is the plot that attracts me to "praise things" and "Joan of Arc" on PSP. Of course, love is also very common in chess.

In short, I think what you said about identifying "real players" and being ruthless when it comes to chess should be an isolated phenomenon-- I still have to ask, I surf less and don't pay attention to the battlefield and the abyss, but do such people really exist?

Fuzzy identity defense Zhu: in fact, the iteration and innovation of game products is a very natural thing. At that time, "romance" added a lot of relationships and nurturance elements, which was entirely the official's own strategic adjustment. Manufacturers want to make money, of course, the more people who buy games, the better, so the old IP will want to expand the audience. From the sales point of view, their attempt is very successful, but also trained a lot of Chi teacher this kind of players into the hole. Monster Hunter: the World and the Elden Ring are doing the same thing. But some loyal old players began to be dissatisfied, began to all kinds of "this is not a real series", or complained that new players can not play like this, so the game is not real. Manufacturers themselves do not defend the "hard core" and "purity" of the work, and players are still defending it. Quarrels between player groups are also more common. This phenomenon, I personally feel that with the development of the network and the increase in the popularity of live streaming is becoming more and more intense.

Bear: let me tell you an old story. Now we all know that "League of Legends" players laugh at "Arena of Valor" players, but further forward, "turret 2" players will also laugh at "League of Legends" players. So in the past, would turret 2 players be laughed at? Of course it will, and even the entire MOBA type has been ridiculed. "knife Tower" was originally a homemade map of "Warcraft 3". At that time, I despised that the top level of the chain was a pure real-time strategy player. It was a miracle to delve into technology. After 10 years of hard practice, it was a crueler world than fighting games. But in the end, the disdain chain disappeared along with the type of game. How many markets are there for the real-time strategy with e-sports as the core?

I mean, times are changing, and there's always a chain of disdain built for it. But on a longer time scale, none of this matters. The type of game does need to be transformed, otherwise it will become a real-time strategy.

In fact, I think the debate about "Engage" is not as loud as "romance". These voices, which are both scolded and praised, show that there is a lot of fresh blood in the series. You see, Mr. Chi spent 20 minutes scolding "Engage" which is not good, how stupid the character is, and can't even pick out a future husband, but still becomes a difficult and classic player until 5: 00 in the morning, which shows that "romantic love" has done the right thing. It not only brings new players, but also allows new players to accept the old system.

If you say that no change is a good choice, that may not be true. "War Goddess 4" is a typical example.

The good news is that the fourth generation is exactly the same as the first generation; the bad news is that the fourth generation is exactly the same as the first generation: "Battle Goddess 4" I tried many times but did not play it.

Bear: yes, it's very retro. I remember it as an enhanced version of the first generation. But it wasn't very successful, and it didn't die abruptly. The Battle of the Devil World series is similar, and now it's in part 7. It's the same with summoning Night. You see, the debate about these games is not that loud, but has the heat of the whole series increased? Do more players like them?

Zhu: however, the situation of "Love and Snow Moon" is quite special. The direction of its reform is more female, and the painter invited is also a BL manufacturer. The targeted wording of "attracting fairies" makes me feel that a group of male players have once again felt that their own field has been violated by women.

Bear: so just now you said that the type of chess is "in the hands of men and old people." I don't agree. If that's the case, works like "romance and Snow Moon" won't appear at all. As a male, I think this change is a good thing. And "Flowers and Snow Moon" did attract a group of female players, but this masked the fact that there were many female players in the original "Fire lines" series. At least as far as I can see, there are not fewer female players in chess than FPS and action games. When I talked about this topic with a friend before, she explained that no one urged you to play chess, you could think about every step slowly, and there was no scene like action games, so she liked it.

Chi: but if I go to a forum in the "War of the Devil World" series and say, I am a woman, I have only played "Love and Snow Moon", and I think "War of the Devil World 7" is very difficult, I think it will definitely be sprayed. And there are a lot of "slang" in the circle, many words look very scary, I am often fooled by their various tutorials, obviously when I play, I find it is not so complicated.

Bear: it's possible. First of all, some people are of poor personal quality, often say that you are not a real player, or define that you are not a real player. Gender bias does exist. Many women don't want to open Mac when playing games just because they think it's troublesome. When these factors add up, I may be very upset when I hear it.

But speaking slang alone, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, and they didn't do it on purpose. For example, I study philosophy, even if I only discuss basic issues with my classmates, people who don't understand may be confused, but you can't say that philosophy students don't respect ordinary people. What I want to say is that the core circle is naturally not easy to understand. In addition to the chess circle, there are also sound game circles, board games circles, and even the entertainment circle, all the same.

Zhu: however, the core player circle is not quite the same as the philosophical circle you mentioned. The criteria in the philosophical circle are relatively clear, for example, we all know what school you go to, what major you study, and what subject you usually study. This identity can be determined. "core player" is a very vague concept. Do you want to play without injury, express, racing and so on to be regarded as the core player? Do you have to make a living by playing games, and being a professional player, commentator and anchor is the core player? Or can you claim to be a core player as long as you have the confidence to jump on other people's faces and say, "you don't want to play this game?" I think most of the players' dissatisfaction has something to do with the vagueness of this identity. First, I want to ask "why are you talking?" and secondly, "why should I listen?"

Bear: some core players may naturally have a dissuasion attribute. Normal Amway games will say that you feel good at this blow, the picture is awesome, the vertical painting is good, and it is fun to play-simple language conveys simple happiness, which may make people feel interested. But some fighting eldest brothers, who only have victory in their hearts, will let you recite the form and ask you to practice standing back and running. Demonstrate that the new player's clothes are not touched and people are even killed without landing, which means you have to run away. This is reverse Amway.

Teacher Yuan once beat her favorite Kabi face-to-face with superb skills in order to fight her teacher Amway's "Nintendo star fight", but I don't think they did it on purpose. Their original intention may be to convey the kind of happiness they understand-the pleasure of playing is really different from that of casually playing. But indeed, not everyone wants to go to work and struggle in the game.

That's why I said "romance" did a good job. If you search for "romance", you will find daily plots and sketches on social media. You look happy, and the newlyweds will feel very friendly and friendly and can enter the pit. But the discussion of previous generations may be what growth rate, what attack and defense …... Maybe it's prohibitive.

Chi: Mr. Xiong really speculates these people with kindness! I think they essentially want Amway. What I encounter on the Internet is basically an output. Whether I like to play, what to play, how to play and even how to evaluate it, there is a set of qualification theory based on the sense of superiority. It's more like driving people away than Amway.

Bear: maybe it is malicious, but this has nothing to do with "Fire pattern", "Chess" or even video games. Everywhere there will be a chain of disdain, there will be people who just want to show their sense of superiority. I have no intention of defending these people, and I seldom take part in the war of words-my view is that breaking away from rational discussion is a quagmire, and if you get stuck in a swamp with one foot, you should leave instead of charging into the swamp without giving in.

You see, today we discuss "real players" through the origin of "fire lines". In fact, it is not a very new topic. When video websites first emerged a few years ago, cloud players were also discussed many times. Is it essentially the same problem? If I have to make a summary, I think people who have played games in person and can experience any kind of happiness are "real players". This is an axiom. I don't know how to prove it, but things should be self-evident.

Conclusion: in fact, from the beginning of the topic, the editors involved found it too strange to discuss the concept of "real player": you picked up the handle, mouse and keyboard to play, what's the difference between true and false? But the reality is always strange, because people's environment, knowledge reserves and cognitive perspective, and even simply because of some deep-rooted characteristics of people, make things that do not need to be discussed become problems. Just as there are camp and intergenerational collisions in reality, there are also player camps and intergenerational collisions in the game community, so these not new topics are brought up, examined and discussed every once in a while.

But none of these should be an obstacle for anyone to enjoy the game. In the case of teacher Chi, this point is being clearly verified.

"is that enough words? no more talking!" She immediately began to pack up. "I'm going back to play chess!"

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